If you love beef and you geek out on the details, this episode is your ribeye. We sat down with Dr. Phil Bass, associate professor of meat science at the University of Idaho, lifelong butcher, and all-around meat DUDE, to unpack what truly makes beef great. We’d just finished judging the American Wagyu Association’s “Best Steak in America” competition together, where Dr. Bass was the pro leading marbling assessment. Then we grabbed the mics so we could show you how a Meat Scientist breaks down Wagyu Beef.
Who is Dr. Phil Bass?
Phil grew up in an Italian family where meat was the center of the table, and the conversation. He started cutting meat as a kid, worked eight-plus years in the beef industry, earned a PhD in Animal Science, and now teaches, researches, and evangelizes the science of great beef. He’s been named one of agriculture’s 40 Under 40 and hosts the nerd-friendly podcast Meatspad. Translation: he’s our kind of people.
Inside the Wagyu judging room: when USDA runs out of rungs
At the competition we watched Dr. Bass pull out the USDA marbling cards…and then put them away. The ribeyes on the table blew past the typical scale. He switched to the Japanese BMS system (1–12), and even then a few steaks were beyond the top, think estimated BMS 14s and even a 15. New frontier stuff.
Key takeaway: USDA Prime often tops out long before elite Wagyu does. That’s why conversations about better, clearer grading—and even a shared global standard—matter.
What “quality” really means (hint: it’s not only marbling)
Ask ten steak lovers to define quality and you’ll hear ten answers. Dr. Bass breaks it into three things diners actually feel:
• Tenderness (the first thing you notice when it hits your palate)
• Flavor (aromatics + fat-derived flavors)
• Juiciness (how easily it chews and swallows)
More intramuscular fat generally boosts all three. But preference still rules. Plenty of people love BMS 5–7, while others want the extreme, dessert-like richness of BMS 10–12+. One isn’t universally “better”, they’re different experiences.
Grass-finished vs. grain-finished: flavor, consistency, and why it matters
Dr. Bass’s take is straightforward: forage-finished beef can be delicious, but it’s harder to marble consistently. Starch-rich finishing (corn, wheat, barley, potatoes in the PNW) tends to produce whiter fat, a smoother flavor, and a more reliable eating experience. You can get high marbling on grass, it just takes much longer, which drives up cost.
Preference matters, but if you’re chasing repeatable tenderness and flavor, grain-finished has an edge. That’s also why countries known for premium beef (US, Australia, Japan) lean into concentrate finishing.
Why Wagyu fat hits different
Wagyu isn’t just “more” fat, it’s different fat. With higher monounsaturated content (hello oleic acid), it melts at a lower temperature and delivers that signature silky mouthfeel. It’s why a paper-thin slice can feel luxurious and why a 12-ounce, super-high BMS steak can feel like too much as a center-of-plate entrée. Respect the format: especially with A5 Wagyu, thin slices, small cubes, and share the richness.
Cuts we love: ribeye off the 5th rib, flat iron, and hanging tender
Dr. Bass is a ribeye guy, especially right off the 5th rib for that glorious cap. He also calls out two chef-favorites:
- Flat iron (infraspinatus): remove the center sinew and you’ve got one of the most tender cuts on the animal. Cook that sinew low and slow and it turns to gel, “meat jelly” heaven.
- Hanging tender: big, robust, iron-rich flavor from a muscle that works every breath. Love it or leave it, flavor diehards usually love it.
Dry-aging and koji: why region matters
Dry-aging isn’t just time; it’s microflora. Different regions grow different mold communities on the surface of aging meat, and those communities create unique flavor “fingerprints.” That’s part of why a 45-day New York dry-age can taste different from a 45-day Seattle dry-age.
Koji (Aspergillus oryzae) brings its own umami magic. Whether you’re brushing a strip with koji before a short rest or running deeper applications, expect savory, nutty, miso-adjacent complexity, and faster cook times thanks to moisture loss.
Labels, antibiotics, and how to shop smarter
US beef is extraordinarily safe. If you want a simpler path to a good experience, start with Choice+ or Prime and look for fine, snowflake-like marbling. On labels: “natural” mostly means minimally processed (which fresh beef already is). If never-ever programs and specific raising claims matter to you, pay for those programs or buy from a butcher who can verify source. If your priority is flavor and value, focus on grade and visible marbling.
On antibiotics: animals that get sick should be treated. There are mandatory withdrawal periods before harvest, strong penalties for violations, and veterinarian oversight. If you prefer never-ever programs, those exist—just know they’re a separate, more expensive supply chain.
Wagyu in 10 years: crosses and balance
Purebred and full-blood Wagyu will always have a place, but Dr. Bass sees the future leaning into crosses (F1s, etc.) that blend Wagyu marbling potential with better growth efficiency. Think wider accessibility, strong marbling, and a flavor profile most American diners can crush on a Tuesday night.
Rapid-fire nuggets we loved
Not all Wagyu is ultra-marbled; we saw entries around BMS 6–7 (still roughly Prime).
Seasonality is real: heat suppresses appetite, which can mean leaner carcasses and floppier texture in late summer.
Piedmontese broke Dr. Bass’s brain—incredibly tender despite being very lean, thanks to small muscle fibers from “double muscling.”
If you want a show-stopper ribeye experience, chase fine “spiderweb” distribution, not just big rivers of fat.
How to ask your butcher better questions
Can you show me a ribeye with fine, even marbling?
Any dry-aged options right now—and how long?
What’s great this week that isn’t ribeye or NY strip? (Flat iron, bavette, sirloin cap, hanging tender.)
If I want the richest bite for a small crowd, do you have Wagyu or Wagyu-cross cuts I can slice thin?
Listen to the episode
We go way deeper on grading scales (USDA vs AUS vs JPN), BMS outliers, the science of tenderness and flavor, dry-aging terroir, koji, labels, where the market is heading and find out how a Meat Scientist breaks down Wagyu Beef.
Dr. Phil Bass
Email: pbass@uidaho.edu
Podcast: Meatspad
Book: It’s Not a Cow
